GROSS:. Rohm had been assassinated – pardon my German (laughter).
BEACHY: No, generally not very.
GROSS: Pardon my pronunciation. As he had been assassinated, Heinrich Himmler took over enforcement of this anti-gay legislation. And things got actually bad then.
BEACHY: Appropriate, and Himmler and Rohm had for ages been sworn enemies. Himmler had been head of this other Nazi militia – smaller company, the SS – more ideological, more elite as well as least in the very early many years of the motion, perhaps maybe not almost as effective – also formed much later on. However with the reduction of Rohm, Himmler then was able to assume more energy inside the regime and in addition in the motion. And then he ended up being additionally then single-handedly accountable for pressing to really have the legislation revised and made more draconian. And then he actually spear-headed the campaign then to eliminate homosexuality from essentially Nazi Germany.
GROSS: Robert Beachy are going to be right right back when you look at the half that is second of show. Their new guide family group sex is named « Gay Berlin. » I am Terry Gross, and also this is OXYGEN.
GROSS: This Can Be OXYGEN. I am Terry Gross straight right right back with Robert Beachy, writer of « Gay Berlin. » It is concerning the gay subculture that flourished in Berlin involving the end of World War I plus the increase of this Nazis. Beachy is composing a follow-up guide about homosexuality in Nazi Germany.
Where did homosexuality fit to the Nazi anxiety about contamination?
BEACHY: that is a great concern. The Nazis really rejected the theory that homosexuality ended up being somehow congenital, biological, natural, and additionally they embraced that which was a much older – an infinitely more conservative and old-fashioned view. Homosexuality ended up being a thing that could be discovered. It may be a behavior that is learned and it also actually spread just like an ailment or even a contagion, how you described it. So the idea ended up being you just expel any diseased people of the people – with this type of biological human anatomy, and that would make the human body stronger. That could ensure it is pure. Not to mention there have been all kinds of metaphors because of this, but which was actually the mindset. But this also meant that the Nazis had an attitude that is completely different homosexuals than they did, as an example, towards Jews, towards Slavs, towards a majority of their ideological opponents. Homosexuals were not almost as threatening, finally, i believe, due to that.
GROSS: nevertheless they did jeopardize the virility of German culture.
GROSS: I’m maybe perhaps not saying they did. The Nazis had been saying they did.
BEACHY: Appropriate, right, appropriate.
GROSS: i am talking about their believes.
BEACHY: Sure, sure, yeah. But, you realize, also right right here once again, virility will have to be grasped perhaps not the maximum amount of with regards to our sense that is traditional of, however in regards to procreation. It had been actually exactly about producing brand new small Germans, and it also had been very nearly a type of every-sperm-is-sacred belief, and then they weren’t, you know, reproducing a new generation of if men were having sex with men instead of with other women well.
GROSS: they certainly weren’t doing their task.
BEACHY: Yeah, exactly. So virility really when you look at the feeling of, you understand, making children – which was, for the Nazis, what is very important i do believe.
GROSS: Did the Nazis outlaw birth prevention, too?
BEACHY: They did. Yeah. And in addition they did their best to remove any type or sorts of abortion training. And thus females had been additionally, you understand, needless to say targeted and considered citizens that are absolutely second-class.
GROSS: So what is the estimation of exactly how many homosexual individuals were imprisoned throughout the Third Reich, and just how numerous passed away in concentration camps and prisons?
BEACHY: The figure that a lot of scholars cite now’s something such as 50,000 imprisoned in a choice of work camps, concentration camps, in a few situations also in death camps, then a sort of fatality price of five to 15,000. And undoubtedly, into the belated ’70s in to the ’80s, the quotes had been much, a lot higher nevertheless they’ve sort of been pegged down as people have done more research and done some archival that is actual to determine those numbers.